This is not about threats in any way, I have had interest in playing a game where one builds creates, fights, wins and loses, and the result is the balance of ones own abilities, and that is balanced against those you meet.

I have Zero interest in playing a game where the result is decided by random chance or luck.
I am buggered if I am going to spend months buying a capital and CCP luck decides whether it lives or dies. And then Grinding back up again.
So I no longer have a goal.

Guess what happens next.

Not anger, not rage, just complete indifference to something I no longer care for.
For me EVE no longer has a reason to exist, it has carelessly cast aside what made it worthwhile.

If you really think that gutting the core concept of eve, where our actions and those actions of those you meet are what decide our experience, is a positive direction for EVE you are welcome to continue.

How about they apply this change to jump bridges as well, think you would be whistling a different tune then.

Now try random with your fleet spread out all throughout a great sphere of space. While jumping into combat, out of refit range.

I wish you everything you have wished others and everything you deserve.

20km and 5km is a very big difference, and not just talking about where your pos is, talking about your cyno jumps as well. Difference is you can call in backup if you get jumped. When your rolling a hole there is no backup if your getting jumped. It's just rip out your implants and go grab a smoke.

What fleet comps? There are none you
You CANNOT REINFORCE,!!!!

That is what a mass limit means!

Yes there are.
And as you have no clue whatsoever about why a capital ship is utilised, then you have no Idea how bat **** crazy that sounds.

have you ever tried rolling a c5/6 wormhole with only sub caps?

Great lets put this change on cynos, jump bridges and nullsec stargates and we'll see how you guys "adapt". I would relish the feedback thread.

That is exactly the solution, so no more PVP, shame. You do actually understand that this prevents searching for ships to shoot?

I'm bored with this, there's no hope of explaining colour to a blind man.
They will never understand.
Good luck.
Maybe see you in a couple of years. If there is anything worth doing by then.

I dont understand how you consider jumping capitals over into a system where you can get rolled out with no backup to come help you is "risk free". In nullsec you just send out scouts to find pvp and then signal the fleet to come on over, sounds a lot less risky to me.

That is not true at all, they can have a capital ship cloaked up on your side and as soon as you jump your cap over to roll it they uncloak and jump theirs. you are now stuck on their side with a capital in your face and a subcap fleet showing up on D-scan.

Granted yeah if you are rage rolling that is not an issue because you will have eyes on the hole the whole time. I still do not see how you can sit there and say "wahhhh, risk free boat is over" when all you guys do is use intel channels and frigate scouts.

Which it absolutely does nothing to address in any meaningful way - the only time the supposed increased risk actually applies in a meaningful way is in fringe cases and in those fringe cases it has a hugely negative impact on smaller entities.

Even your own post I'm quoting part from highlights that the risk factor isn't really a factor.

Why do you insist on wormhole people looking to find content to have to risk billions of isk in order to do so?

Yes we use cov ops to scout just like you, the difference is you don't have to roll holes or scan out the systems. Spend the time scanning out all the sigs in the chain, just to find out there is nothing there. Now we have to come back and deal with rolling the wormhole with capitals getting shot out 20km away, so the choice is to either warp off and warp back or slowboat in a capital 20km. After that is done guess what, rinse and repeat, sometimes can take 10 + times doing it before you find something worth doing.

It adds plenty of meaningless risk if there is no one there to exploit that risk and 99 times out of 100 there simply isn't someone there to exploit that risk while in the mean time adding extra tedium just to add risk to fringe cases. Is it really that difficult to understand?

The activity is already interdictable by those with sharp reaction times, good planning and the balls to go for it.

Even with the change no one is going to catch you rage rolling unless they already have probes out, a fleet ready to go and prepared to jump straight into a fight they have limited intel on - which almost never happens - is it really worth all the negatives to make this tiny fringe scenario a little tiny bit more feasible at best?

It seems a lot of people really don't have even half a clue how wormhole space actually works.

Really it is like young teenagers trying to be sex councillors.
They have heard rumors of the mechanics, and one day might actually learn what's going on, probably mainly from pornography.
God help them the first time they try, a large dose of reality awaits.
Maybe they will have some ideas after being married and having actually lived it for a few years.

A window at any cost? regardless of what else it might destroy?


EDIT: PS you want to post on your actual character?

What you do in the bedroom is entirely your affair.
I am pointing out that you know jackshit about wormholes and coming out with the most absurd ideas. Live in them a while and then your opinion might have some value when discussing changes to wormholes.

Pretty sure he is saying you are in a null sec corp and do null sec stuff and trying to contribute to an aspect of the game you don't even participate in.

Did I miss a post where you gave a detailed explanation of why your for this change?, or even posting in this thread in the first place other than to try and stir people up? with all due/undue respect most of your posts seem to boil down to "it will increase risk duh!" while demonstrating only a vague knowledge of how the mechanics actually work in practise and missing some of the larger repercussions of the change due to missing the finer details.

Largely it was attempts to draw parallels to what kind of change in null would be an approximate of this change and the reaction suggesting that kind of change would have from people who were connected to nullsec rather than an attack on nullsec.

How many posts now? Well if you want a clear concise pr+¬cis, read Corbexx post, He nails it well.

Do you just have a personal hatred for wormhole people or something? So your idea of a good change is to make finding content in a game take longer and more frustrating?

If CCP wants these finer details they are more than free to take part in the topic here.

Your posts demonstrates a theoretical knowledge of the application of these mechanics - as you said its not that complex but shows a lack of practical knowledge of how they tend to work out in actual use.

(PS your not fooling me even if I am somewhat humouring you).

You have no authority. You are simply a player expressing opinions on an area of space you have no reason to be concerned with.
Your only input is whether you get caps away from nullsec holes so you can hotdrop them.

It is not my role to educate you, you have a basic grasp of the concepts, but as you are not aware of the linking structures and effects across the whole of space, you have no concept as to how this affects the overall environment for players who DO live there.
I have no desire to separate, the foolish from the sensible comments, I do not have that much patience.

You have NO right to demand more.

I think you are overestimating how often rage rolling goes on.

Like I said before, are you gonna take car advice from the dude down the street who knows nothing on the subject (goons) or are you gonna go to the professionals (Literally any of the wh corps in this thread)?

At the same time, you're attempting to leverage your alliance membership into a position of someone who should be listened to, as opposed to being the tired kid at the mall who wants to go home right NOW and wants candy that he saw another kid get. Please leave wormhole space to wormhole residents, and stop talking out of your ass. It's bad enough that CCP Fozzie is currently talking out of his ass, let's not try to take his job away.

That is a perfect example of why you should not be contributing to the discussion of this change if that is how you see wormholes.

I don't know what you're trying to do with your mechanics thing, but please do enlighten me as to your reasoning for going to the dude who knows nothing instead of the people who know what they're doing.

If I must use a simpler analogy for your mind, would you ask a 5 day old character who just joined EVE about supercapital tactics and titan fits? No, because they don't know what you're talking about. And neither does 99% of the Goonswarm posts in this thread.

But but I like my sandwich board with member of Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork on it :|

Can you imagine all the "but your not a member of a nullsec corp/alliance so what would you know" put downs? lol

You are not relevant, you bring nothing relevant, repeat, we do not care.

Read what is already written, rather than demanding it all be explained personally to you.

Come on the Goons have already got what you wanted, you won,you ****** up the game for others. just stop gloating.

All you proved is your versed in the theoretical mechanics and lack much knowledge of the practical mechanics - anyone with even a minimal amount of experience with the practical side knows that 3 caps will close the wh without any getting back for instance (not a method usually used for rolling unless your extracting).

For yet more examples of some of the more finer points see corbexx's post above.

Go on i'll bite cos i'm bored




Ok so you have read my post whats wrong with it or what don't you agree with, or do you agree with it?

Hard to disprove your argument when you have none, then there are none we can disprove.

[quote=Promiscuous Female]
Maybe because this is not a "101- help the newbie" thread. These guys don't need to explain what is obvious for everyone living in w-space.

Going to assume you haven't lived in wh space at this point So to plagiarize and this isn't a direct attack at you.

Here's the hard truth: If you don't live in W-space, and you've never lived there, your opinion about how W-space should or shouldn't be is worse than irrelevant: you are the virgin offering advice on how to get laid. Like a virgin, you probably genuinely believe that your opinion matters and that the mere fact that you have no personal experience on the topic shouldn't invalidate your opinion, while everyone else listening to you is quietly shaking their head.

I'll leave you now to go and strike them down in the comments on http://themittani.com/content/traffic-control-unknown-virgins

I'd not wanted to get involved in yet another troll session, but the Goonswarm individual's take on a wormhole doesn't seem to have any bearing in what the disconnect of living without a safety net does to us..

Imagining what it's like to live in a wormhole is nothing like the isolation, the unknown dangers, and the sheer lack of anchor-points that no local, no gates, and no stations does to your perception of space inside a wormhole. We do things to improve this, but in the end the perception of where you are and where "safety" lies is completely different than in any area of K-space I've been to.

There is no fast way to get help, no backup unless your friends are already in there with you and a phone call away, and no way out unless you probe it down, and then you know someone may already be there, waiting, ready to jump you. Or it could just be a completely empty system with a dead stick at planet IV, moon 2. Well, and 17 sigs and another 38 anomalies, but who's counting?

ok so you know you dont roll wh's with 3 dreads? right cos one of the issues is you have people who say they do know stuff and comment when what they say leads towards them not knowing and making comments based on the wrong info

By your statement here, then, I have every right to dictate what happens in Nullsec despite never having spent more than an hour there? Gonna have to save this for later, so I can use it when the Nullsec changes are live on SiSi without prior statements to anyone who lives there. Then I can toss this little gem back at you and your peers out in the donut.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4951074#post4951074

Thats actually the 2nd time I pointed out holes in that post as well :S

Tbh I just wanted to post my main post but then I after the discussion, I went back to check some of your stuff. Frankly I couldn't careless about where you live in game or what you do. Your right, you are free to comment on stuff, that's fine. But the issue is you come on here you post all this stuff about what you think of the change, when you don't even understand the very basics of the change. Closing a c5 to c5 is literally one of the easiest wormholes in game to close. Now if you don't understand the very basic stuff and get that wrong how are any of us meant to take the rest of what you say seriously. How can you comment on the more complex things of how this will effect people when you don't know the basics?

This isn't even that much a issue, its just you posting on these forums and most the wormhole people will know its rubbish. what's much more of a issue is when you get so called wormhole "experts" on certain podcasts talking about this stuff and getting the basics wrong, like saying "ooh 2 dreads and a orca to roll a c5 c5" or "yeah with the change you'll be spawning 20 to 50km" thats much more of a issue cos there listeners just assume there correct when in fact its total ballshit. That leads to people making decisions based on stuff that's just not correct. Your much better posting from a educated position. Its one of the reasons i get so pissed off when people mention isk in wh space when they are literally pulling numbers out there arse with no facts or anything to back it up.

actually the rest of us are just marveling at how incompetent you are.

the past 100+ pages devoted to this have had "101 wh stuffs" over and over and over and over and...ya also one of the biggest reasons for the csm is so ccp can speak to the actual experts and csm corbexx has done his job, it's ccp fozzie that hasnt by not listening to him nor the rest of us.

with all the trolls i guess this is why customer service is so ****** from game companies

Safe holes lol you have no idea what you are talking about null bear..Lets remove local From Null ..heck lets remove local from low sec as well..Safe holes..Get a clue.